Peter Criss Tongue Interview
Interview from Gene Simmons Tongue Magazine Fall 2002:
Over the course of nearly 30 years Gene Simmons and original drummer Peter Criss-who was voted out of the band in 1980, but rejoined the founding lineup for the 1996 reunion tour-have been friends, enemies, and everything in between. Now, older and a lot wiser, the cat sat down with the demon to discuss the frisky felines budding acting career, the autobiography hes writing, his memories of the bands early days and what he really thinks of Gene, Paul and Ace after all these years.
The Cat Has Nine Lives
Gene: Remember how we met?
Peter: It was in New York around 1973. I put an ad out in Rolling Stone: Willing to do anything to make it. I was like 25 and I thought I was washed up. I did a great album with a band called Chelsea, and we thought we were going to make it, but it didnt go anywhere. So I was freaking out, and I said, There goes my big chance out the window. I was desperate, and I sat with myself and said, How far are you willing to go to make it? What would you really do? Would you really wear a dress? Would you go in drag? I had no problem with any of these thoughts, and then I said, Im so desperate, Ive got to put an ad.
Gene: Where were you when I called?
Peter: I was at a party at my place in Brooklyn, back when I was married to my first wife Lydia. Everybody was drinking wine, dancing. The phone rang, and it was you, and you were so serious. But you sounded very sincere, and all the phone calls I got from the ad werent like that, and I had a feeling in my gut. You just went to it, like I was going to join the army. Are you thin? And to the people at the party, I yelled, Hey, am I skinny? So you would obviously hear this in the background. You must have figured you called a maniac or something. And then you asked, Do you have long hair? Youve got to have long hair. I said, I have long hair. And every time you would ask me a question, I would ask the people at the party, so you could hear this roar of like, Am I really good? Yeah hes great! I thought, this guy has got to be freaking out. But I had a good feeling about it, because I felt in your voice that you wanted it as bad as I really wanted it.
Gene: The thing that struck us about your ad was the language. Not drummer, 11 years experience, but willing to do anything to make it. That was the line.
Peter: You wanted what I wanted. We had both played the clubs forever, and had enough of that shit.
Gene: Were you working at the time?
Peter: Lydia was great. She worked a 9-5 job from the day we got married, because I told her, Ill never work a job. I want to be a rock star. Thats all I want to be. Dont get on my case because theres not enough money coming in. Were either going to get married under these circumstances, or we cant get married, because Ive got to be who I am. She had no problem with that. We got married, she paid for all of it and she worked for a good 6 years before I made it, and supported me in everything I did. She had full faith that I was going to be a star. Youve got to have a woman like that next to you.
Gene: Or two. People think of rock tours as jets and hotel suites. What was it like touring in the early days with KISS?
Peter: Our first vehicle was a milk truck. Paul drove it standing up, because it had no seat. The drivers used to stand in those old trucks. Thats how we got to the shows. We would load up this truck-actually 3 of us would load up the truck. Ace was lazy. He would never do anything. He would always have something wrong with him-a cold, a hurt finger, the dog ate my face. But all that is what made it work. And maybe it took that guy to be that way and this guy to be this way, because you cant all be the same. There has to be a mixture, like Italian food. Youve got to make the sauce. Youve got to let it cook. And the next day it always tastes better.
Gene: What about the girls on the road?
Peter: You were always the animal. You would have girls, girls, girls.
Gene: Thats not what I mean.
Peter: Did I have girls? Sure. Ace and I had twin sisters once. They were identical, and they played tricks on us when we came to town. I got his and he got mine. I knew there was something different in bed, because it just wasnt the same. And finally they told us, Im really Amy and this is really Jane. Thats how the road was, you just did things like that.
Gene: Would you and the rest of the guys ever sneak into anybody elses room?
Peter: One time, in Canada, you had something in your room-and I say something because I never knew what was going to come out of that room. This one chick was so big, sweaty, and nasty, she was wearing coveralls, because thats probably the only thing the poor girl could get into. Anyway we got to Canada, and you were in the room with a girl, and the 3 of us decided this shit had to stop. We were going to go in and fuck you up. So we decided to get naked-we were always getting naked-and to sneak into your room, and get under the bed and sneak around with no clothes on. You used to hate to see us naked: Get that thing away from me. Because we used to like to put our things on your shoulder.
Gene: What things?
Peter: The thing between my legs, that big thing. Ace and I would love to lay our big things on your shoulders. You would be putting makeup on, and all of a sudden, you would go, Oh no! Anyway back to your room. We sneaked in, and it was pitch black, and you were going at it, and we were trying not to laugh. There were all these primal sounds going on, and we were really trying to hold it in, and finally, I think Ace broke out, or probably me, and you put the light on and there were these 3 naked men on the floor. You had to be there to see it because the chick flipped out.
Gene: Looking back on your experience with the band, if you had to do it all over again, is there anything you would do different?
Peter: A lot of things, and I know what they are. I didnt always see with the clarity that I see with today. I see so clear it frightens me at times. Success, for me, was a drug. I couldnt kick it. It was like it had to stay with me from the stage, back to the hotel, to the next morning. I just loved it, and I wallowed in it, and I wouldnt do it this time around. I would have slowed down and kicked back more and paid more attention and shut the fuck up and listened a lot more, and I would have really watched my temper.
Gene: What do you think the temper was about?
Peter: I was frustrated about a lot of things. Some of its personal, and since Im writing a book, I want to save it for the book. Its an autobiography. KISS is part of it, but its about my childhood and my growing up in poverty and working my way out of it.
Gene: What else is on the horizon for you?
Peter: Acting. Ive really got the bug. I met Noel Behn, a brilliant New York writer who the book The Brinks Job and also wrote the TV series Homicide. My wife Gigi became really good friends with him, and he wanted her near his bedside when he passed on a few years ago of cancer. Through Noel, my wife met Tom Fontana, who does Oz on HBO, and has done a million other things. So after Noel passed on, we had dinner with Tom, and I said, I want to act. I want to be on your show. And he said, Go to school, and Ill put you on. I would do anything in the world for Tom Fontana because he kept his word. I went to school, and he cast me as a guy who just beat 2 people to death with a baseball bat in the 2 opening episodes of Oz last season. And I havent stopped going to school. Its the most wonderful therapy Ive ever had in my whole life.
I also just opened up my own company, called Catapult. Its going to be the Cat Mans label. I want to release my records, and maybe some other peoples records, and I want to produce a few things if I can. Im still working on it. And I just wrote 4 songs, and I got some jazz arrangements. Id like to get parts in a couple of movies too.
Gene: Okay, unedited, I want you to go right down through the band. Start with Paul, then go to Ace, then to Gene and end with Peter. Who are the guys without makeup? All of it-the good, the bad, the ugly.
Peter: Well Paul likes to buy things. I dont think he knows why, but hes got to shop. I never met a man like that, because I hate shopping. Ill go in and buy what I want, and Im out of the store. But he can stay there for hours just like women like to stay there for hours and look at stuff.
Gene: Any nicknames for Paul?
Peter: Lydia nicknamed him Phyllis, and I dont know why. Our old road manager, Frankie Scinlaro, once called him Box Man, because he was built like one when we first met. Paul was a very built type of guy. I actually think we had to get a corset or something to tighten him up, because he felt he was too heavy for the stage. But I will give him credit. The guy works his ass off on stage. Hes dedicated. And what he wants, he usually gets. Hell stick with it till he gets it. I admire him for that. I still feel theres a wall up with Paul, and he will not bring it down. I just wish he would crack it, and break it, because theres no reason for it anymore. Weve grown up now.
Gene: Is the wall with everybody or just between you two?
Peter: Everybody. That wall just surrounds him. I think hed like the damn thing to get out of his way. And I think thats what hes been fighting with all his life. To get rid of that fucking wall.
Gene: Did Frankie Scinlaro have any other nicknames for Paul?
Peter: Hell never talk to me again, but Frank called him the He-She.
Gene: Okay, now Ace.
Peter: I always pitied Ace in a way, because Ace is an unhappy guy. Ace has no reason to be unhappy, because he could have the world by the balls if he wanted, because hes really smart. But he chooses to live in the 70s. He doesnt know any other world. And I think his playing is still the same. As a musician, I havent seen any growth in his playing. I also feel he locks himself away too much. I think he also fears people, so he gets into, lets call it the zone, where he goes, and he feels safe there. It will wind up killing him, but he feels safe in the zone. And he seems to choose women that drag him even lower than he wants to be dragged, and I feel bad for him when I see that. I think he just doesnt want to be alone. I think he needs that girl to run his errands because hes got to be one of the laziest asses Ive ever known in my life. He wants you to do it all for him. Hes late for rehearsals. He doesnt show up. Wont come to sound checks.
It hurts, because if youre with somebody for so long, as much as you hate him at times, and you want to take a gun a shoot him, theres the other side-weve been together for 3 decades, man. Thats a long time. I have drum sticks older than my wife. But Ace is also one of the most giving guys I know. He would give you the shirt off his back if you wanted it. And hes one of the funniest guys to go out with. He great at jokes, and he has a wonderful sense of humor when hes using it. And his laugh makes me laugh.
Gene: Tell us some nicknames for Ace.
Peter: Well, Scraps, because he ate whatever was left over on everybody's plate. We also called him High Octane. And Baby Elvis, because he got a little heavy at one point. I am going to get killed for this interview. Look, theres good and bad in all of us. But like I said, I dont live in the past. Ace today, wherever he is, I wish him the best. Id like to see him live a long life. I think he walks the rope too close. Too much walking the rope is dangerous. Got to get on solid ground.
Gene: Ok, my turn.
Peter: Youre a workaholic. And youre really a pain in the ass at times. Youre such a control freak, I want to choke you to death at times. If it aint your way, its nobodys way. I respect you for that, but at times you knock people out of your way that shouldnt get knocked out of the way. At times I hear you say one thing, then you say another thing. I dont know where youre going. I go, Oh, that was nice. Then I read something else and go, Thats not nice. So I sometimes dont know if youre dealing from the bottom of the deck.
Gene: Have I changed?
Peter: Yeah I worry about you. I think sometimes that kerosene that youve been spitting out has really gotten to your brain. I think its worked its way up there, and caused problems. I say this because my own psychologist saw you on TV and thinks he should see you in his office.
Gene: How much does he charge?
Peter: Hes cheap 75 bucks.
Gene: Do you think I can work him down?
Peter: I mean it, youre a sex fanatic, you always have been. You cant get enough of it. Youre addicted to it. I guess thats ok. But theres that way about you. Theres a nasty way about you when you walk in a room. You expect everybody to stop what theyre doing and drop, because the master just entered. You were always pompous, and wanted to get over on somebody and intimidate them with your height. And if they have some sort of disability, you go right to it. You will look at a person, and you will listen to them, and the minute they open up a weakness, you got it. You will go for the throat, the minute that person weakens in any form. But you like someone to come back at you. You like when somebody goes right back in your face, and Im always the guy who likes to go right back in your face. Weve had that, and thats one thing I always admired, when we get down to it, theres no bullshit. Today, I see people for who they are and what they do. And I respect them for good or bad, because thats what theyre doing, and theyre doing it because they believe in it. I believe in good and evil. I dont think youre evil. I think people think you are. But Ive been with you too long.
Gene: I am [evil]
Peter: Well, youre going on the chute, anyway.
Gene: Tell the reader what that means.
Peter: The chute is to hell. Youre going straight to hell when you die. Its not even a staircase, its just straight down. No stops. Youll get down there and youll want to take Diablos place. Youll want to rule hell, because youre that type of guy. I dont think you can even help yourself. You just love to control things. But youre not a violent man. Ill always give you that. You have never been violent, like with fists and guns and craziness. But mentally different ways. Mentally, you could hurt someone as bad as I could hit someone in the face, with all my might.
You make enemies, and its not good to make enemies. Its good to tell someone to their face how you feel about them, but theres a way of saying it. Theres constructive criticism, and theres destructive stuff, and I think at times you are destructive. You hurt the thing you love the most. And thats what kills me about you, that you destroy what you love the most.
The family thing has always bothered me. Were not a family. Im a founding member of the band, just like you and Paul and Ace. We started out as kids, we took it to the top of the limit. You couldnt take it any higher. We were superstars. But my family is my wife and my mother, rest her soul. Youre a man I make money with. Youre my friend. Youre my enemy. Youre many things to me, and youve been a big part of my life for 30 years. Thats not easy to shake off your back. So I go home and I look at my lovely home, and I look at my car, and my records, and my health. And I think, Thanks, man. I wouldnt be where I am today if it wasnt for KISS. Im proud to say that. As screwed up as we are. We were four guys that struggled, and really went through fucking hell to get to the top of the world. I understand you call it family, I understand Paul did, but its not family to me. To me, it was 3 guys that made me very rich and famous today, and very happy today, and really proud to be on this planet. Thats what I feel youve given me through your lunacy. But its you and Paul running the band. Me and Ace werent running the band. You guys were always up in front, we were always kind of in the back. There was always that tug of war: Gene and Paul against Ace and Peter. That always bothered me. I used to feel, Jesus, I did write Beth, which was a hit record. It did launch us into a better place than we were. That album [Destroyer] was going nowhere. And at times I would say, Thanks Gene, thanks, Paul. But I did seldom hear it from you guys. As much as you may call me an asshole and say Im a moaner, and I complain, and Im never happy, there were reasons for that. I wont list them here, because Ill explain in my book.
Gene: Any nicknames for me?
Peter: Well, youve become a Baby Ace-youve put weight on here and there. And we used to call you Professor Dope because you love to hear your voice. I used to call you Papa, because you always were the daddy of the band. Im 3 or 4 years older than you, but for some reason you were always like the father of the group. We were always like the kids, and thats why we liked messing with you, because it was like messing with your dad.
Gene: Can you mess with Paul?
Peter: No. Paul is a great guy, but don't tease him, because hell cut your throat and you wont even know youre cut until he walks away and you feel the blood coming down. He cant help himself. But you can take it, and Ace could take it. Although you take it better than Ace.
Gene: Ok, tell us about Peter. Are you the same as you always were?
Peter: When I met you, I was a real Brooklyn street guy, coming out of gangs and a lot of violence. I liked it for some reason, because I used to get off on the adrenaline-being in the gang, and fighting, and the whole thing of being part of something. Being a member of something always meant something to me. Thats how I felt about the band. Only being a member of a band is a lot safer than being a member of a gang. I was a tough Italian kid that grew up in a really tough neighborhood where you had to protect yourself everyday of his life or get the shit kicked out of you. So there was violent streak that evolved, so that's when I met you, it was like, You look at me the wrong way, Im going to hit you. I was crazy. I carried a gun. I was a wild man in my day, because I felt vulnerable. I always felt someone was going to get me, because I grew up always looking over my back. I kept that violence with me in the band; it didnt go away.
Gene: What about the story you told me about when you were in a religious school.
Peter: I am a Roman Catholic, and Im proud of it, but my schooling was a lot different than yours, because it was very cruel in those days. If you had to go to the bathroom and the Sister wasnt in a great mood, you didnt get to go. So you would say, Sister I really have to go. And she would say, Well, you can go when the bell rings. So I would pee in my pants at school and the get laughed at and ridiculed. There was a time I even shit in my pants because I had to go and she wouldnt let me go. And I think that shit sticks with you. Ridicule locked me in a dark closet, closed the door. If I didnt read something correctly, or do something right, I would be threatened, be thrown in a closet where you keep the coats, and be locked in there for the rest of the morning, two hours maybe. Great for a 10 year old kid, to sit in a dark closet. I used to love to bring my little toys to school. They took the toys, and made you sit in a wastepaper basket next to her desk, or you had to stick your hands out and they beat your knuckles with a ruler. Youve got to come out a little crazy when you finish a school like that. So when I met you, all this was still in me. I never wanted to talk about it with a doctor. I never went to a psychiatrist. They didnt exist in the 70s. That wasnt the thing: Let me go see whats wrong with me. Nobody thought that way. I just thought it would go away like everything else goes away. It got worse. I seemed like the more famous I got, that I felt like I would be able to get away with more. Now Im rich, famous, powerful, a rock star, so if I want to shoot this whole room up, I can afford that. Its not a big deal. If I want to take your television and throw it out the window Im going to do it, because Im just in that type of mood.
Gene: Did you ever shoot up televisions?
Peter: Well, yours. Yours was just one of many. I was staying at your house because I was seeing another woman behind my first wifes back. I called you and you said I could use it. So I stayed at your place. You were with Cher, and you had one of those big Advent projection TV screens. And I used to carry this .38, and I was watching this movie, and it had Warren Beatty in it. Debra, who I was with, and later became my second wife, slurred out, Oh I slept with him. And I said, Oh really. Boom, boom, boom! So I shoot the television. Big holes. You tell the story a lot, but you never mention the fact that I replaced it. Ok, I realize thats bad, but at the time I actually felt that rock stars could do that: TVs out the window, a lot of girls in the bathtub at once, drinking a lot of beer, get stoned, go back to the hotel. When youre young, you get up the next day, get right back to it. After a while it caught up to me, and it will to anybody, that mentality of settling something with your hands instead of your brain. I think I had to go through a lot. I think I had to hit, as we say bottom, to know what the top is.
Gene: When did that happen?
Peter: Probably after my second marriage.
Gene: And how do you define bottom?
Peter: I feel that we are all stars in the sky, and I define bottom as when my star fell in the sky, because I went against everything that was given to me. I wasnt grateful for it. I did the opposite. I was greedy and evil and mean and did everything wrong. Thats how it was, and I felt that God took it away, and took my star and just snuffed it out, and took all that work that I put in to get where I wanted to get, and just took it all away. That was probably about 1990 or 91. It was a nightmare. I found myself with no wife, no kid. My mother died. My father dies. I was living in a little beach house in Venice. I didnt have millions anymore. That was the low point to me. I wasnt a star.
Gene: Were you playing in a band?
Peter: I was playing in my band, Criss. And then eventually Aces band and my band teamed up and went out. It was a nightmare. I wanted to shoot myself. I was like, What are we doing in a bar again? This is where we started. How did we get back here? But I knew how, I knew why. And I asked God if he would give me one more chance, just one more chance. If you just put my star, back where it was, Ill never fuck up again. And here I am, and I wont, because I know what it feels like to lose. Youve got to lose to know what it is to win.
Interview from Gene Simmons Tongue Magazine Fall 2002:
Over the course of nearly 30 years Gene Simmons and original drummer Peter Criss-who was voted out of the band in 1980, but rejoined the founding lineup for the 1996 reunion tour-have been friends, enemies, and everything in between. Now, older and a lot wiser, the cat sat down with the demon to discuss the frisky felines budding acting career, the autobiography hes writing, his memories of the bands early days and what he really thinks of Gene, Paul and Ace after all these years.
The Cat Has Nine Lives
Gene: Remember how we met?
Peter: It was in New York around 1973. I put an ad out in Rolling Stone: Willing to do anything to make it. I was like 25 and I thought I was washed up. I did a great album with a band called Chelsea, and we thought we were going to make it, but it didnt go anywhere. So I was freaking out, and I said, There goes my big chance out the window. I was desperate, and I sat with myself and said, How far are you willing to go to make it? What would you really do? Would you really wear a dress? Would you go in drag? I had no problem with any of these thoughts, and then I said, Im so desperate, Ive got to put an ad.
Gene: Where were you when I called?
Peter: I was at a party at my place in Brooklyn, back when I was married to my first wife Lydia. Everybody was drinking wine, dancing. The phone rang, and it was you, and you were so serious. But you sounded very sincere, and all the phone calls I got from the ad werent like that, and I had a feeling in my gut. You just went to it, like I was going to join the army. Are you thin? And to the people at the party, I yelled, Hey, am I skinny? So you would obviously hear this in the background. You must have figured you called a maniac or something. And then you asked, Do you have long hair? Youve got to have long hair. I said, I have long hair. And every time you would ask me a question, I would ask the people at the party, so you could hear this roar of like, Am I really good? Yeah hes great! I thought, this guy has got to be freaking out. But I had a good feeling about it, because I felt in your voice that you wanted it as bad as I really wanted it.
Gene: The thing that struck us about your ad was the language. Not drummer, 11 years experience, but willing to do anything to make it. That was the line.
Peter: You wanted what I wanted. We had both played the clubs forever, and had enough of that shit.
Gene: Were you working at the time?
Peter: Lydia was great. She worked a 9-5 job from the day we got married, because I told her, Ill never work a job. I want to be a rock star. Thats all I want to be. Dont get on my case because theres not enough money coming in. Were either going to get married under these circumstances, or we cant get married, because Ive got to be who I am. She had no problem with that. We got married, she paid for all of it and she worked for a good 6 years before I made it, and supported me in everything I did. She had full faith that I was going to be a star. Youve got to have a woman like that next to you.
Gene: Or two. People think of rock tours as jets and hotel suites. What was it like touring in the early days with KISS?
Peter: Our first vehicle was a milk truck. Paul drove it standing up, because it had no seat. The drivers used to stand in those old trucks. Thats how we got to the shows. We would load up this truck-actually 3 of us would load up the truck. Ace was lazy. He would never do anything. He would always have something wrong with him-a cold, a hurt finger, the dog ate my face. But all that is what made it work. And maybe it took that guy to be that way and this guy to be this way, because you cant all be the same. There has to be a mixture, like Italian food. Youve got to make the sauce. Youve got to let it cook. And the next day it always tastes better.
Gene: What about the girls on the road?
Peter: You were always the animal. You would have girls, girls, girls.
Gene: Thats not what I mean.
Peter: Did I have girls? Sure. Ace and I had twin sisters once. They were identical, and they played tricks on us when we came to town. I got his and he got mine. I knew there was something different in bed, because it just wasnt the same. And finally they told us, Im really Amy and this is really Jane. Thats how the road was, you just did things like that.
Gene: Would you and the rest of the guys ever sneak into anybody elses room?
Peter: One time, in Canada, you had something in your room-and I say something because I never knew what was going to come out of that room. This one chick was so big, sweaty, and nasty, she was wearing coveralls, because thats probably the only thing the poor girl could get into. Anyway we got to Canada, and you were in the room with a girl, and the 3 of us decided this shit had to stop. We were going to go in and fuck you up. So we decided to get naked-we were always getting naked-and to sneak into your room, and get under the bed and sneak around with no clothes on. You used to hate to see us naked: Get that thing away from me. Because we used to like to put our things on your shoulder.
Gene: What things?
Peter: The thing between my legs, that big thing. Ace and I would love to lay our big things on your shoulders. You would be putting makeup on, and all of a sudden, you would go, Oh no! Anyway back to your room. We sneaked in, and it was pitch black, and you were going at it, and we were trying not to laugh. There were all these primal sounds going on, and we were really trying to hold it in, and finally, I think Ace broke out, or probably me, and you put the light on and there were these 3 naked men on the floor. You had to be there to see it because the chick flipped out.
Gene: Looking back on your experience with the band, if you had to do it all over again, is there anything you would do different?
Peter: A lot of things, and I know what they are. I didnt always see with the clarity that I see with today. I see so clear it frightens me at times. Success, for me, was a drug. I couldnt kick it. It was like it had to stay with me from the stage, back to the hotel, to the next morning. I just loved it, and I wallowed in it, and I wouldnt do it this time around. I would have slowed down and kicked back more and paid more attention and shut the fuck up and listened a lot more, and I would have really watched my temper.
Gene: What do you think the temper was about?
Peter: I was frustrated about a lot of things. Some of its personal, and since Im writing a book, I want to save it for the book. Its an autobiography. KISS is part of it, but its about my childhood and my growing up in poverty and working my way out of it.
Gene: What else is on the horizon for you?
Peter: Acting. Ive really got the bug. I met Noel Behn, a brilliant New York writer who the book The Brinks Job and also wrote the TV series Homicide. My wife Gigi became really good friends with him, and he wanted her near his bedside when he passed on a few years ago of cancer. Through Noel, my wife met Tom Fontana, who does Oz on HBO, and has done a million other things. So after Noel passed on, we had dinner with Tom, and I said, I want to act. I want to be on your show. And he said, Go to school, and Ill put you on. I would do anything in the world for Tom Fontana because he kept his word. I went to school, and he cast me as a guy who just beat 2 people to death with a baseball bat in the 2 opening episodes of Oz last season. And I havent stopped going to school. Its the most wonderful therapy Ive ever had in my whole life.
I also just opened up my own company, called Catapult. Its going to be the Cat Mans label. I want to release my records, and maybe some other peoples records, and I want to produce a few things if I can. Im still working on it. And I just wrote 4 songs, and I got some jazz arrangements. Id like to get parts in a couple of movies too.
Gene: Okay, unedited, I want you to go right down through the band. Start with Paul, then go to Ace, then to Gene and end with Peter. Who are the guys without makeup? All of it-the good, the bad, the ugly.
Peter: Well Paul likes to buy things. I dont think he knows why, but hes got to shop. I never met a man like that, because I hate shopping. Ill go in and buy what I want, and Im out of the store. But he can stay there for hours just like women like to stay there for hours and look at stuff.
Gene: Any nicknames for Paul?
Peter: Lydia nicknamed him Phyllis, and I dont know why. Our old road manager, Frankie Scinlaro, once called him Box Man, because he was built like one when we first met. Paul was a very built type of guy. I actually think we had to get a corset or something to tighten him up, because he felt he was too heavy for the stage. But I will give him credit. The guy works his ass off on stage. Hes dedicated. And what he wants, he usually gets. Hell stick with it till he gets it. I admire him for that. I still feel theres a wall up with Paul, and he will not bring it down. I just wish he would crack it, and break it, because theres no reason for it anymore. Weve grown up now.
Gene: Is the wall with everybody or just between you two?
Peter: Everybody. That wall just surrounds him. I think hed like the damn thing to get out of his way. And I think thats what hes been fighting with all his life. To get rid of that fucking wall.
Gene: Did Frankie Scinlaro have any other nicknames for Paul?
Peter: Hell never talk to me again, but Frank called him the He-She.
Gene: Okay, now Ace.
Peter: I always pitied Ace in a way, because Ace is an unhappy guy. Ace has no reason to be unhappy, because he could have the world by the balls if he wanted, because hes really smart. But he chooses to live in the 70s. He doesnt know any other world. And I think his playing is still the same. As a musician, I havent seen any growth in his playing. I also feel he locks himself away too much. I think he also fears people, so he gets into, lets call it the zone, where he goes, and he feels safe there. It will wind up killing him, but he feels safe in the zone. And he seems to choose women that drag him even lower than he wants to be dragged, and I feel bad for him when I see that. I think he just doesnt want to be alone. I think he needs that girl to run his errands because hes got to be one of the laziest asses Ive ever known in my life. He wants you to do it all for him. Hes late for rehearsals. He doesnt show up. Wont come to sound checks.
It hurts, because if youre with somebody for so long, as much as you hate him at times, and you want to take a gun a shoot him, theres the other side-weve been together for 3 decades, man. Thats a long time. I have drum sticks older than my wife. But Ace is also one of the most giving guys I know. He would give you the shirt off his back if you wanted it. And hes one of the funniest guys to go out with. He great at jokes, and he has a wonderful sense of humor when hes using it. And his laugh makes me laugh.
Gene: Tell us some nicknames for Ace.
Peter: Well, Scraps, because he ate whatever was left over on everybody's plate. We also called him High Octane. And Baby Elvis, because he got a little heavy at one point. I am going to get killed for this interview. Look, theres good and bad in all of us. But like I said, I dont live in the past. Ace today, wherever he is, I wish him the best. Id like to see him live a long life. I think he walks the rope too close. Too much walking the rope is dangerous. Got to get on solid ground.
Gene: Ok, my turn.
Peter: Youre a workaholic. And youre really a pain in the ass at times. Youre such a control freak, I want to choke you to death at times. If it aint your way, its nobodys way. I respect you for that, but at times you knock people out of your way that shouldnt get knocked out of the way. At times I hear you say one thing, then you say another thing. I dont know where youre going. I go, Oh, that was nice. Then I read something else and go, Thats not nice. So I sometimes dont know if youre dealing from the bottom of the deck.
Gene: Have I changed?
Peter: Yeah I worry about you. I think sometimes that kerosene that youve been spitting out has really gotten to your brain. I think its worked its way up there, and caused problems. I say this because my own psychologist saw you on TV and thinks he should see you in his office.
Gene: How much does he charge?
Peter: Hes cheap 75 bucks.
Gene: Do you think I can work him down?
Peter: I mean it, youre a sex fanatic, you always have been. You cant get enough of it. Youre addicted to it. I guess thats ok. But theres that way about you. Theres a nasty way about you when you walk in a room. You expect everybody to stop what theyre doing and drop, because the master just entered. You were always pompous, and wanted to get over on somebody and intimidate them with your height. And if they have some sort of disability, you go right to it. You will look at a person, and you will listen to them, and the minute they open up a weakness, you got it. You will go for the throat, the minute that person weakens in any form. But you like someone to come back at you. You like when somebody goes right back in your face, and Im always the guy who likes to go right back in your face. Weve had that, and thats one thing I always admired, when we get down to it, theres no bullshit. Today, I see people for who they are and what they do. And I respect them for good or bad, because thats what theyre doing, and theyre doing it because they believe in it. I believe in good and evil. I dont think youre evil. I think people think you are. But Ive been with you too long.
Gene: I am [evil]
Peter: Well, youre going on the chute, anyway.
Gene: Tell the reader what that means.
Peter: The chute is to hell. Youre going straight to hell when you die. Its not even a staircase, its just straight down. No stops. Youll get down there and youll want to take Diablos place. Youll want to rule hell, because youre that type of guy. I dont think you can even help yourself. You just love to control things. But youre not a violent man. Ill always give you that. You have never been violent, like with fists and guns and craziness. But mentally different ways. Mentally, you could hurt someone as bad as I could hit someone in the face, with all my might.
You make enemies, and its not good to make enemies. Its good to tell someone to their face how you feel about them, but theres a way of saying it. Theres constructive criticism, and theres destructive stuff, and I think at times you are destructive. You hurt the thing you love the most. And thats what kills me about you, that you destroy what you love the most.
The family thing has always bothered me. Were not a family. Im a founding member of the band, just like you and Paul and Ace. We started out as kids, we took it to the top of the limit. You couldnt take it any higher. We were superstars. But my family is my wife and my mother, rest her soul. Youre a man I make money with. Youre my friend. Youre my enemy. Youre many things to me, and youve been a big part of my life for 30 years. Thats not easy to shake off your back. So I go home and I look at my lovely home, and I look at my car, and my records, and my health. And I think, Thanks, man. I wouldnt be where I am today if it wasnt for KISS. Im proud to say that. As screwed up as we are. We were four guys that struggled, and really went through fucking hell to get to the top of the world. I understand you call it family, I understand Paul did, but its not family to me. To me, it was 3 guys that made me very rich and famous today, and very happy today, and really proud to be on this planet. Thats what I feel youve given me through your lunacy. But its you and Paul running the band. Me and Ace werent running the band. You guys were always up in front, we were always kind of in the back. There was always that tug of war: Gene and Paul against Ace and Peter. That always bothered me. I used to feel, Jesus, I did write Beth, which was a hit record. It did launch us into a better place than we were. That album [Destroyer] was going nowhere. And at times I would say, Thanks Gene, thanks, Paul. But I did seldom hear it from you guys. As much as you may call me an asshole and say Im a moaner, and I complain, and Im never happy, there were reasons for that. I wont list them here, because Ill explain in my book.
Gene: Any nicknames for me?
Peter: Well, youve become a Baby Ace-youve put weight on here and there. And we used to call you Professor Dope because you love to hear your voice. I used to call you Papa, because you always were the daddy of the band. Im 3 or 4 years older than you, but for some reason you were always like the father of the group. We were always like the kids, and thats why we liked messing with you, because it was like messing with your dad.
Gene: Can you mess with Paul?
Peter: No. Paul is a great guy, but don't tease him, because hell cut your throat and you wont even know youre cut until he walks away and you feel the blood coming down. He cant help himself. But you can take it, and Ace could take it. Although you take it better than Ace.
Gene: Ok, tell us about Peter. Are you the same as you always were?
Peter: When I met you, I was a real Brooklyn street guy, coming out of gangs and a lot of violence. I liked it for some reason, because I used to get off on the adrenaline-being in the gang, and fighting, and the whole thing of being part of something. Being a member of something always meant something to me. Thats how I felt about the band. Only being a member of a band is a lot safer than being a member of a gang. I was a tough Italian kid that grew up in a really tough neighborhood where you had to protect yourself everyday of his life or get the shit kicked out of you. So there was violent streak that evolved, so that's when I met you, it was like, You look at me the wrong way, Im going to hit you. I was crazy. I carried a gun. I was a wild man in my day, because I felt vulnerable. I always felt someone was going to get me, because I grew up always looking over my back. I kept that violence with me in the band; it didnt go away.
Gene: What about the story you told me about when you were in a religious school.
Peter: I am a Roman Catholic, and Im proud of it, but my schooling was a lot different than yours, because it was very cruel in those days. If you had to go to the bathroom and the Sister wasnt in a great mood, you didnt get to go. So you would say, Sister I really have to go. And she would say, Well, you can go when the bell rings. So I would pee in my pants at school and the get laughed at and ridiculed. There was a time I even shit in my pants because I had to go and she wouldnt let me go. And I think that shit sticks with you. Ridicule locked me in a dark closet, closed the door. If I didnt read something correctly, or do something right, I would be threatened, be thrown in a closet where you keep the coats, and be locked in there for the rest of the morning, two hours maybe. Great for a 10 year old kid, to sit in a dark closet. I used to love to bring my little toys to school. They took the toys, and made you sit in a wastepaper basket next to her desk, or you had to stick your hands out and they beat your knuckles with a ruler. Youve got to come out a little crazy when you finish a school like that. So when I met you, all this was still in me. I never wanted to talk about it with a doctor. I never went to a psychiatrist. They didnt exist in the 70s. That wasnt the thing: Let me go see whats wrong with me. Nobody thought that way. I just thought it would go away like everything else goes away. It got worse. I seemed like the more famous I got, that I felt like I would be able to get away with more. Now Im rich, famous, powerful, a rock star, so if I want to shoot this whole room up, I can afford that. Its not a big deal. If I want to take your television and throw it out the window Im going to do it, because Im just in that type of mood.
Gene: Did you ever shoot up televisions?
Peter: Well, yours. Yours was just one of many. I was staying at your house because I was seeing another woman behind my first wifes back. I called you and you said I could use it. So I stayed at your place. You were with Cher, and you had one of those big Advent projection TV screens. And I used to carry this .38, and I was watching this movie, and it had Warren Beatty in it. Debra, who I was with, and later became my second wife, slurred out, Oh I slept with him. And I said, Oh really. Boom, boom, boom! So I shoot the television. Big holes. You tell the story a lot, but you never mention the fact that I replaced it. Ok, I realize thats bad, but at the time I actually felt that rock stars could do that: TVs out the window, a lot of girls in the bathtub at once, drinking a lot of beer, get stoned, go back to the hotel. When youre young, you get up the next day, get right back to it. After a while it caught up to me, and it will to anybody, that mentality of settling something with your hands instead of your brain. I think I had to go through a lot. I think I had to hit, as we say bottom, to know what the top is.
Gene: When did that happen?
Peter: Probably after my second marriage.
Gene: And how do you define bottom?
Peter: I feel that we are all stars in the sky, and I define bottom as when my star fell in the sky, because I went against everything that was given to me. I wasnt grateful for it. I did the opposite. I was greedy and evil and mean and did everything wrong. Thats how it was, and I felt that God took it away, and took my star and just snuffed it out, and took all that work that I put in to get where I wanted to get, and just took it all away. That was probably about 1990 or 91. It was a nightmare. I found myself with no wife, no kid. My mother died. My father dies. I was living in a little beach house in Venice. I didnt have millions anymore. That was the low point to me. I wasnt a star.
Gene: Were you playing in a band?
Peter: I was playing in my band, Criss. And then eventually Aces band and my band teamed up and went out. It was a nightmare. I wanted to shoot myself. I was like, What are we doing in a bar again? This is where we started. How did we get back here? But I knew how, I knew why. And I asked God if he would give me one more chance, just one more chance. If you just put my star, back where it was, Ill never fuck up again. And here I am, and I wont, because I know what it feels like to lose. Youve got to lose to know what it is to win.

