Excellent post, Jess! Excellent!
| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
Spacebear1222 |
|||
|
Excellent post, Jess! Excellent! I got a couple dents in my fender
|
|||
Sweet Child O Kiss |
|||
|
We gotta help eachother, Bear!
I'm only laughing on the outside / My smile is just skin deep / If you could see inside I'm really crying / You might join me for a weep.
-Joker, 1989
Laugh and the world laughs with you! -Joker, 1989, Arkham Asylum |
|||
nightwingken2 |
|||
Sweet Child O Kiss wrote: 1 - same reason as rape victims. 2 - because they don't want to be know as the guy that MJ messed with or the guy that claims that MJ messed with him 3 - because of irrational fans and the media that will haunt them and call them liars even if something did happen |
|||
nightwingken2 |
|||
|
Jackson 'kidnapped' family after Bashir documentary
By Chris Johnston, Times Online Michael Jackson told the mother of his accuser that her children were being stalked by "killers", before holding the family against their will, a court was told yesterday. Janet Arvizo, 37, took the stand at the star's trial in Santa Maria, California, and immediately pleaded the Fifth Amendment, refusing to discuss aspects of her past including whether she was entitled to some welfare benefits. The jury were required to leave the court while the issue was debated. She then gave emotional testimony about an alleged plot by Mr Jackson and his aides to hold her family prisoner to force them to help clear his name after a damaging television documentary by the journalist Martin Bashir was broadcast in February 2003. In the programme Mr Jackson admitted that children shared his bed and was seen holding the hand of Gavin Arviso, the boy who alleges that the star abused him. After the broadcast Mr Jackson flew the family from Los Angeles to Miami for a press conference to deny claims of sexual abuse against her son. Mrs Arviso told the court that Mr Jackson said he would "protect us from these killers" because he "loved" and "cared" about the family. A few days later, she said that the star took the Arvizos to his Neverland Ranch in California where they were allegedly held until agreeing to make a video in a bid to clear his name and "appease the killers". Mrs Arvizo also told the court how she saw the singer licking the side of Gavin's head while he slept on the flight back to Neverland. Sobbing and pleading with jurors not to judge her, she said that she got up during the flight to Miami to check on her son: "That's when I saw Michael licking (Gavin's) head. I thought it was me, I thought I was seeing things." Jurors also heard phone calls with a Jackson aide who begged the family to return to Neverland after they allegedly escaped with the help of a friendly employee. The aide also offered to place a guard outside her home 24 hours a day because "there's a lot of evil people out there right now", the court heard. There was no mention of death threats and it was not clear who the aide was referring to. Mrs Arvizo eventually returned to Neverland and appeared in a video lavishly praising Mr Jackson. "Everything I said, I said it with my heart," she told the court. Mr Jackson, 46, is on trial for allegedly molesting Gavin, a 13-year-old cancer survivor, plying him with alcohol and conspiring to hold the family against their will at his Neverland Ranch and a Los Angeles hotel. He has denied 10 charges that could see him jailed for up to 20 years if convicted. Prosecutors claim that the singer and his aides isolated the family after the Bashir documentary, fearing that the scandal would ruin his already crumbling financial empire. Mr Jackson's lawyers argued that Mrs Arvizo should not be allowed to testify, but Judge Rodney Melville allowed her to take the stand. She gave evidence for more than four hours, during which time Thomas Mesereau, the singer's principal lawyer, did not make a single objection. However, legal experts believe that the day was a setback for the prosecution because the jury may not believe Mrs Arvizo's testimony. She often gestured dramatically, spoke directly to the jury and sobbed three times on the stand. "I think today we went from Neverland to Fantasyland. The jurors saw a woman who may believe what she's saying, but I don't think the jurors believe what she is saying," Jim Moret, a lawyer, said. Trent Copeland, another lawyer, described her as "scattered, strange, and at times really bizarre". But he added: "She seems so incredible that she might just appear to this jury to be credible. At times she seemed to resonate true," he said. Gavin Arvizo, now 15, gave evidence in the trial last month. The case continues later today when Mrs Arvizo is expected to resume giving evidence. |
|||
nightwingken2 |
|||
Sweet Child O Kiss wrote: Because MONEY is power and a guy who has ton of money and pretty much an gang of folks who are hired to do what he says. I know people who see state and federal laws violated that don't turn in the companies they work for because they do not want to get involved or lose their jobs. The employees who said that they witnessed Jackson molested kids said so AFTER THEY WERE fired. if what they said was true, it does not matter if it was after they were fired after all MJ was messed with as a child • we have no proof of it, yet all believe it • His mother and brothers all had to witness what was going on, yet, no one has had him investigated • MJ never filed charges Let's not forget also that Jordan Chandler's father was jealous that his son was spending more time with the star. why the hell should he be spending time with children he is not related to with out the parents being there? something is seriously wrong there. I don't think he did anything wrong. He had an eccentric lifestyle and they took advantage of it. lets take a look at that and point out a few things that are getting left out. eccentric lifestyle • buying elephant man's bones - not not that bad • wanting to entertain kids - not not that bad • owning a chimp - not not that bad on the other hand • wanting to sleep with little boys - fucked up • wanting to sleep with little boys after he was taken to court and and settled out of court, paid 20 million (because "nothing happened) and still continued to do so • holding family hostage until they film a video telling how wonderful he was- fucked up • MJ's pornography was found with The Boys FINGERPRINTS on it - fucked up If there was a guy in your home town, who was busted not on molestation charges or even inappropriately sleeping with children that are not his was turned in for showing pornography to an underage youth and they searched and found the childrens finger prints on the porn, the guy from your neighborhood would prob do jail time, and have to register as a sex offender. Michael did neither of those because MONEY talks. |
|||
nightwingken2 |
|||
Spacebear1222 wrote: why would any parent let their child spend the night unsupervised unchaperoned? they were screwed up as well as far as i am concerned EVEN if nothing happened A conspiracy perhaps??? you know it, because a rich black man who has a court case in L.A. seems to always turn into some conspiracy. it's a screwed up world Weird and troubled that he was, family/friends who actually knew Michael, stand by his innocence even in death, often saying that he was a loving, they also stand by their father and mother, a father that abused the children and a mother that had to know about it and did nothing |
|||
Sweet Child O Kiss |
|||
|
Ken, this is the last time I'm going to talk to you about this. You have your opinions and I have mine. I have told you before that I used to be on the
skeptical side but there is a reason why I changed my mind. I don't feel like you'll take me seriously anyway because you will whitewash my opinions
and my sources as 'uncredible'. I once read somewhere that even the ALLEGATION of child molestation is ENOUGH to mark a person with the scarlet letter.
Women do this alot when they don't want the fathers of their children around. The allegation ONLY is enough to brand someone even if they didn't commit
the act itself!
About the pornography, they were art books, one of them from a fan. Also, who is to say that the boys snuck around the rooms and got the alcohol. Lord knows that 13 year olds are not angels especially someone like the accusers in the last trial. Also, did you forget that the boys mother had a history of extorting money from celebrities. Even George Lopez said this about the family and he was on their side! You seem to have this habit of painting these people as angels. Do you seriously think that a mom who pimped her cancer stricken kid is an angel of mercy who doesn't deserve this? She effing snapped her fingers in court in a demanding manner and some of the answers she gave made the court laugh out loud! Even back then when I believed that he was guilty, it still read as being too one sided. There is a reason why the jury dismissed him of all the charges. It's because they saw and read things in that courtroom that the media did not want to expose because it would be too pro Jackson and even back then when I followed the case, I knew the journalists were too one sided. Explain to me, how in the heck can the media go from practically convicting the man to the jury acquitting him? The mother had a history of pimping her kids from more than one famous person She trained her kids to think in certain ways She was very rude and disrespectful to the jury/judge/defense Her son's eyewitness accounts did not match up in regards to innappropriate action with Jackson. Employees on the defense team said that the boy was reckless.hat Do you seriously think that thirteen year old boys are angels? It's also been mentioned that Jackson let the boys as well as others (kim Kardashain) have the place for themselves while he was away. It is very possible that these kids snooped around for a secret stash of porn. What thirteen year old DOES NOT DO THAT? Also, Jordan Chandler from the 1993 case admitted that it was a LIE! He sued his own father in 2006 and admitted that it was all versed. I am not saying that having sleep overs with kids thirty years younger than you is right. He did not do himself any favors there. Even the psychiatrist diagnosed him as being a regressed ten year old. I would say that he was emotionally stunted in that area at worst. Please don't make that pig Arvizo into a saint because she is not. I'm gonna stop right here because I know it will fall on deaf ears.
I'm only laughing on the outside / My smile is just skin deep / If you could see inside I'm really crying / You might join me for a weep.
-Joker, 1989
Laugh and the world laughs with you! -Joker, 1989, Arkham Asylum |
|||
nightwingken2 |
|||
Sweet Child O Kiss wrote: is there a source for the fact that these "porn" books were art books? On the today show they mentioned Barley Legal and a Plus sized woman mag as far as letting alcohol and "art" books lay around where kids can get to them a big no no, if you are entertaining kids. You seem to have this habit of painting these people as angels. no, i am separating the adults from the children. You speak of a smear campaign IF even one of the victims were indeed a victim, then it all got lost in a sea of horse shit. and believe all you have to do to make a victim's statement seem as if it's not true is to ask certain things. "why were you dressed like that? what were you doing in that part of town at that time of night" the bottom line, if their were victims all truth was washed away. by a team of lawyers and $20 Million dollars you do realize if MJ would have done two things, we would be discussing none of this. 1. not pay the hush money of $20 mill 2. refuse to allow himself to sleep with underage boys ..period Do you seriously think that a mom who pimped her cancer stricken kid is an angel of mercy who doesn't deserve this? credible news source that she was pimpin? There is a reason why the jury dismissed him of all the charges. It's because they saw and read things in that courtroom the media doesn't matter, they are cold an heartless and will make money off of any one they can. last night there was a commercial for the Today show. it simply said "The today show, the newest updates on the Michael Jackson Story...Monday" we are in Iraq and Afghanistan and that is what they are promoting Do you seriously think that thirteen year old boys are angels? no but i believe that some unwise pop star slept with many in his bed even after going to court and even said that everyone should sleep with Kids (in the Bashir film) It's also been mentioned that Jackson let the boys as well as others (kim Kardashain) have the place for themselves while he was away. another stupid move, so he left 13 yr old kids there unsupervised??? why? I am not saying that having sleep overs with kids thirty years younger than you is right. He did not do himself any favors there. he is screwed up and what is sad is that he was surrounded by "yes" people who let him do anything he wanted and had the money to change his reality any time he wanted Please don't make that pig Arvizo into a saint because she is not. i don't know or care about that woman. but in America, we blame the victims esp when money and fame are involved I'm gonna stop right here because I know it will fall on deaf ears further proof that people do not want discussions, they want to be "right". MJ fans on our local talk shows are saying how wrong it is to even mention what may have happened and what MJ may have done wrong one fan went on to say when asked by the host if all of it or even some of it was true , she said "it doesn't matter" that's fucked up again as i said earlier if only he would have done these 2 things 1. not pay the hush money of $20 mill 2. refuse to allow himself to sleep with underage boys ..period |
|||
tigger255476 |
|||
|
Agree or not with what (or not) MJ did or didn't do... does this debate really need to be in Gene's forum?
|
|||
nightwingken2 |
|||
|
well it is based on what gene's comments originally
|
|||
tigger255476 |
|||
|
Yes originally... but I think you guys got off on bit of a tangent
|
|||
nightwingken2 |
|||
|
I defer to you being mod in this room. I say we just wrap it up as Gene has a right to his opinion and we may never know the truth, I am glad to enjoy the
music MJ made and in the end that is what matters to me.
thread closed Thanks to all that shared their opinion on the matter one thing to remember , an opinion is still an opinion and we all have them Thanks Gang |
|||